Tribe stiffs Moorad........or did we?

[*TR]

Backtrack a little. If Alomar was still here Gonzalez ABSOLUTELY would have accepted arbitration. Not a doubt in my mind. There is no deal out there for him. Two more attractive players (Bonds & Boone) ackowledged the reality and accepted arbitration. Juan would have also. In fact he ALMOST accepted anyway!

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[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wally Cleaver:
Not so fast my friend, Finley was horrible in his last three starts of the season. A number two starter has to be better than four inning starts in playoff games, sounds like you are making excuses for him. The Indians would be far better off by trading this over the hill 40 year old pitcher.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finley's final three starts, I'm not sure they were all terrible.

Anyway, Drese should have been given a shot.

Juan would have stayed if Robbie had stayed.

We have plenty of young pitching. The veteran but NOT over the hill starting nine would have complemented the pitching.

Our vets would have protected the young pitchers from countless close, low scoring games where they may put the weight of the world on their shoulders...and perhaps even overthrow to make up for a suddenly less potent offense.


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Alex

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by srg:
Mark Shapiro has been the Farm director/scouting director in charge of drafting ALL the young pitchers scattered thru the system not John Hart. John Hart is the one who wrecked this system not Mark Shapiro, Hart is the ego-maniac that fired scouting directors as often as Steinbrenner used to can managers. It was Shapiro who hired shrewd baseball people like John Mirabelli and Neil Huntington, It was Shapiro who was the architect of the Winter conditioning programs and Latin American player development programs. It was Shapiro who did not want Brian Giles traded for Rickey Rincon, Sean Casey for Burba, Karsay for Rocker. FYI it was John Hart who wanted to draft Aaron Sele or Alan Watson over Manny Ramirez, the egotistical Hart was overuled by Mickey White fortunately. Hart responded by firing White a couple yrs later. Hart did not build the Indians by himself, he gets all the credit but were it not for Hank Peters-Dan O'Dowd, Mickey White we would not have been the team we were during his tenure. Mark Shapiro wants a team built around pitching and defense, that is what separates the two.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find these comments confusing....didn't Hart put assemble these guys onto HIS management team?

You also think Hart fired Mickey White because White forced Hart to take Manny Ramirez???

That sounds pretty hokey.



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Alex

[srg]

Alex, Hart did not hire Mickey White, Hank Peters did. Once Hart took over he canned White not for drafting Ramirez but b/c he wanted control without dissenting voices like White. Hart is an egomaniac who wanted complete control that is why he fired so many scouting directors.

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[Hawaii007]

Why pick on Fryman as worthless in the Division Series?
Alomar hit .190 in the series. Why don't you blame it on Alomar as well?

I still think Finley did what he was supposed to do in Game 5. He gave up 3 runs, 2 on a hit that would have been caught by a better, faster defensive left-fielder. And the thing is, Moyer was pretty much their MVP behind Ichiro, but we should have been able to knock him out many times considering how many baserunners he allowed on in Game 5. In other words, the Tribe lost the game and the series because of breaks, they simply didn't go our way that game.

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[Hawaii007]

Alex, who were you talking about? Cordova was playing left when the fateful hit dropped in off of McLemore's bat in Game 5, I really think Cabrera would have gotten it if he had been playing that day. Yes, our outfielders tend to play deep, but it is because they have never been considered great outfielders, except for Lofton, so the theory is, coming in is always easier then running back, so play the percentages.

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[Wally Cleaver]

That still does not excuse the two woeful performances by Finley. A number two starter has to be able to go more than five innings in a playoff game. I agree with the majority here, Finley has to be traded or forced to retire.

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[*TR]

Pick on Fryman because he was INJURED and knew he couldn't play worth a darn but insisted on continuing to try. All he did was hurt the team (all year!) and retard the development of Russ Branyan. People think Fryman is admirable for playing hurt, but really he was just selfish and stupid. And he'll continue to be selfish and stupid by not having the surgery he needs on his elbow!
Don't forget lousy managing as a prime cause of our loss to Seattle.
It's a moot point but I really wish we could see how Game 4 would have turned out if Cordova would have let Bell's foul ball drop. I think we would have gotten out of the inning, but we'll never know.

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[Alex]

I'd say Jolbert had a better chance to catch that ball, and it might have made sense to go defense once the seventh inning was reached...

HOWEVER...I think Jolbert would have been playing too deeply. It seems our coaches like our fielders near the wall.

Just curious, how many balls went over our outfielders heads for gappers last year versus the amount that dropped in front of our outfielders. I seem to recall many more balls dropping in front of our fielders than getting by them for doubles and triples.

Meaning, perhaps in certain situations, we play our outfielders too deep.

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Alex

[Alex]

Hawaii007, I meant that Charlie should have considered replacing Marty Cordova in that fateful 7th inning with Jolbert Cabrera for defensive reasons...HOWEVER...

I also believer Jolbert would have been playing too deep and would have also missed the ball that Marty missed.

I don't agree about Finley, he's only making 5-6 million this year...If he is healthy, he will be a strong number 3,4, or 5 starter.

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Alex